[hercules-os380] 819 and 1047

[[e-mail] [hercules-os380]]

I just checked the code pages from IBM and
819 (ASCII-based) and 1047 (EBCDIC-based)
both have the exact same characters in them.
Neither one has extra characters. Both have
the pound sterling sign in them too.

I'm mulling over each of us having UUCP-based
systems exchanging newsgroup messages, and
I want us to be able to use either mainframe or
PC systems.

Unfortunately IBM has removed the code pages
from here now:

https://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/cp/cp_cpgid.html

A combination of archive.org and a google
search allowed me to find:

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/globalization/gcoc/attachments/CP01252.txt

As that appears to be the closest that I can
get to 819 on Windows.

However, I found that 1252 has a number of
extra characters available, plus some slight
changes to others:

< AF SM150000 Overline
---

AF SD310000 Macron Accent

< D0 LD620000 D Stroke Capital/Eth Icelandic Capital
---

D0 LD640000 Eth Icelandic Capital

Therefore, in order for us to communicate
between ASCII and EBCDIC platforms,
people with a pound symbol can use that,
or "hex on" can be used to add it, but we
need to steer clear of the two code points
above, whatever those are.

But in the same way that Windows doesn't
fully support 819, people on EBCDIC
platforms may not have full support for
1047. I suggest therefore that we stick to
the ASCII characters and their EBCDIC
equivalents in 1047, and over time we
try to get systems up to full 1047 support.

Actually, other EBCDIC code pages like
037 could also be used, so long as
people stick to ASCII characters. So
long as the translate tables are
reversible we shouldn't really care if
someone is using something other than
1047. That only becomes an issue when
we have different characters like in
1252, but I just checked, and 037 encodes
identical characters to 1047 and 819, just
at different code points for a few things
(see below), so that is way cool.

BFN. Paul.



32c32
< 5F SD150000 Circumflex Accent
---

5F SM660000 Logical NOT/End Of Line Symbol

110c110
< AD SM060000 Left Bracket
---

AD LY120000 Y Acute Capital

113c113
< B0 SM660000 Logical NOT/End Of Line Symbol
---

B0 SD150000 Circumflex Accent

123,124c123,124
< BA LY120000 Y Acute Capital
< BB SD170000 Diaeresis/Umlaut Accent
---

BA SM060000 Left Bracket
BB SM080000 Right Bracket

126c126
< BD SM080000 Right Bracket
---

BD SD170000 Diaeresis/Umlaut Accent

[[e-mail] [hercules-os380]]

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]
However, I found that 1252 has a number of
extra characters available, plus some slight

And given that the default code page on my
system is 437 anyway, which is very different
from 1252, I think we need to have a rule to
stick to the ASCII characters when exchanging
messages via our UUCP systems.

BFN. Paul.

[Joe Monk [e-mail] [hercules-os380]]

See UUENCODE/UUDECODE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uuencoding

Joe

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]
However, I found that 1252 has a number of
extra characters available, plus some slight

And given that the default code page on my
system is 437 anyway, which is very different
from 1252, I think we need to have a rule to
stick to the ASCII characters when exchanging
messages via our UUCP systems.
BFN. Paul.

[Gerhard Postpischil [e-mail] [hercules-os380]]

Post by ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]
Therefore, in order for us to communicate
between ASCII and EBCDIC platforms,
people with a pound symbol can use that,
or "hex on" can be used to add it, but we
need to steer clear of the two code points
above, whatever those are.

Macron is a bar over a letter, typically used to indicate a long vowel.

As you are no doubt aware, "th" in English has two forms - a voiced and
a voiceless version. These derive from the Norse edth (edh, eth, edd,
elfddalian; voiced) and thorn (voiceless). Thorn looks like a vertical
stroke with a smaller right semicircle in the middle (the capital form
is smaller, while the lower case extends both above and below the
baseline of the font), and the capital edth looks like a D with a small
line through the vertical (like the Vietnamese -D), while the lower case
looks like a mirror image six with a small oblique stroke through the top.

All of these are available on custom (e.g., American Library
Association) versions of 1403 print trains and Datamation 2250 bands.

Wikipedia is a great time-waster <G>

Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT


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['Dave Wade' [e-mail] [hercules-os380]]

I nearly mentioned the Thorn. Typically, in English we see this today as a "Y" as in "ye olde worlde tea shoppe" and so "ye" should simply be pronounced the same as in "the".
I seem to remember a discussion about this on probably a VM bitnet group many years ago. I thought it was on VMSHARE but I can't find it in the archives.
There was also mention that at the time VM came with "American English" but those of us in England had to order the "UK Language" option....

Dave
G4UGM

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 11 November 2018 13:49
Subject: Re: [hercules-os380] 819 and 1047

Therefore, in order for us to communicate between ASCII and EBCDIC
platforms, people with a pound symbol can use that, or "hex on" can be
used to add it, but we need to steer clear of the two code points
above, whatever those are.

Macron is a bar over a letter, typically used to indicate a long vowel.
As you are no doubt aware, "th" in English has two forms - a voiced and
a voiceless version. These derive from the Norse edth (edh, eth, edd,
elfddalian; voiced) and thorn (voiceless). Thorn looks like a vertical
stroke with a smaller right semicircle in the middle (the capital form
is smaller, while the lower case extends both above and below the
baseline of the font), and the capital edth looks like a D with a small
line through the vertical (like the Vietnamese -D), while the lower case
looks like a mirror image six with a small oblique stroke through the top..
All of these are available on custom (e.g., American Library
Association) versions of 1403 print trains and Datamation 2250 bands.
Wikipedia is a great time-waster <G>
Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT
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