Yes and I don't think you going to accomplish that in 72 lines. A web server would be what's required and futuristic.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/28/18, ***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380] <hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [hercules-os380] bluetooth
To: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 28, 2018, 4:53 PM
Â
dynamically
Post by Amrith ***@yahoo.com [hercules-os380]to a browser. The server sits on MVS accepts http
requests and sends a web page in response. A servlet
container is many things but I will call it as a fancy
way
Post by Amrith ***@yahoo.com [hercules-os380]of saying we will use Java as the scripting language
to accept the http request and service it. I believe
that
Post by Amrith ***@yahoo.com [hercules-os380]there are c implementations of web servers which
allow
So based on what you said previously, I am
guessing that this means that a Java interpreter
is too much to expect at the moment for
MVS/380. But you think an alternate scripting
language could be made available on MVS/380.
But that presumably means that people need
to write web pages in that language. But I guess
that doesn't matter either because this is
something internal to the MVS/380 application.
The browser is not aware of what is happening.
Is that correct?
Post by Amrith ***@yahoo.com [hercules-os380]Considering the amazing technically complex
stuff you have done, all this should be a piece
of cake for you.
Please don't assume such a thing. If you
look at what I actually produce, you will
find that it is not very much code. E.g. I
am very happy with the @@SETUP code
that I wrote to cater for the AMODE/RMODE
issue on MVS. That is 72 lines of code
written after about 30 years of trying to
understand AMODE/RMODE.
Do you expect the dynamic webpage
hosting to be 72 lines of code? Note that
Jason Winter did something similar - a
small amount of code to make TCP/IP
available. It depends if you think the
project in question can be solved with
trickery or whether it's a major porting
effort. A native TCP/IP stack for MVS 3.8j
was going to be a major effort too.
I tend not to actually understand something
until the time comes for me to actually
write my own version of it. E.g. I only came
to understand what RECFM=U was after it
came time to add support for it to PDPCLIB.
Plus I choose to do things in a roundabout
manner such that I remain ignorant of much
technology so that I can invent my own way
of doing things, before seeing what the
normal way of doing things is so that I am
in a position to compare notes, instead of
having nothing to compare with.
So if you're basically saying "implementing a
native TCP/IP stack for MVS 3.8j should be
a piece of cake for someone with your
technical skills", you are sadly mistaken. :-)
It depends whether a trick is available or
not, in this case for the scripting language.
E.g. maybe CLIST or BREXX can be used.
Note that I'm not the only person who comes
up with tricks - somitcw's "separate
memory"
proposal is another great trick. The solution
was so simple, but it took many years to
invent, and a degree of luck.
Note that MVS/380 2.0 beta is basically
about 2000 lines of code, mostly written
by Gerhard. Designed over more than a
decade of discussion.
So what's your estimate of the number of
lines of code to achieve what you want?
Also note that someone else in the
turnkey-mvs group has got static web
pages working, but for some reason
needed to rewrite PDPCLIB. I don't
actually understand why PDPCLIB
would need to be rewritten for this
application. It's another example of how
ignorant I am of some things, because
I've "never" (sort of) tried writing a web
server.
BFN. Paul.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/28/18, ***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [hercules-os380] bluetooth
To: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:16 PM
You're in an area I don't know much about,
so
maybe you can explain in more detail. E.g. I
don't even know what a servlet is. I'm way
behind the times in some areas. I don't even
have a smartphone.
I think you are saying that for a message-reading
application, MVS/380 should be obtaining
messages from a VSAM dataset, and then
transmitting the data to google chrome or some
other web browser. Basically to end up with an
interface like we see on Yahoo Groups.
You may be right that this is the best approach,
but note that with the Hercules/380 mods, the
integrated console can be turned into a
graphics display on Windows, so that may be
a way forward.
I think I'm not really a big fan of graphics
though. I'm more interested in text applications,
which to me is what message reading is all
about, and I'm more interested in upgrading a
line mode interface to a fullscreen interface as
seen in ISPF, but still text - fixed-width font too,
as I'm mainly interested in seeing snippets of C
code being displayed properly. I'm also
interested in bringing deafblind users along,
where fancy graphics is useless, and deafblind
users in third world countries like India or the
Philippines where the cost of Braille readers
is prohibitive, so a system of Morse code
vibrators is more reasonable.
BFN. Paul.
---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
<***@yahoo.com
mailto:***@yahoo.com> wrote :
ISPF or other 3270 based programs do not make good client.
I
think a http server for static web pages is being built
in
the 390 forum. MVS would make an excellent backend
system
even with just VSAM. A dynamic web server is the need of
the
hour. A servlet container may too complicated. I bet
there
are light weight alternatives in c. I am not sure how
mvs380
would handle multiple requests for atl memory in the
same
address space if there are thousands of requests per
second.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/28/18, ***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [hercules-os380] bluetooth
To: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 28, 2018, 11:34 AM
That's a great question. So far my focus has
been on line-mode applications, but for a
news reader application I will need some
sort of menu system. I could use ISPF for
that.
Note that with Hercules/380 running under
Windows I can actually draw a graphics
display, and I could get micro-emacs
working in a similar manner. I got the first
page of 3270-based REVIEW to display (on
the Hercules integrated console) too.
If micro-emacs can work then that should
provide an alternative (to 3270 terminalsl)
way of displaying menus.
I would like to be able to do all my work on
MVS/380, and that means I need a way of
using MVS/380 to replace Yahoo Groups
so that I can read these messages. But note
that these messages are all text, so I don't
need a GUI, I just need a text menu system.
And I think the Hercules integrated console
is the proper place to display that, so that
I don't need a separate 3270/3215 terminal,
and it will rely on an extended SVC 120
API to drive the integrated console. I think
that ideally needs PUTLINE and GETLINE
intercepted so that I can run a STC or batch
job that invokes IKJEFT01 and output goes
to the integrated console. I think a menuing
program would drive the integrated console
using ANSI escape sequences, sent in
EBCDIC by programs like micro-emacs.
Probably with modifications to PDPCLIB to
get all input and output channeled through
the SVC 120 extended API instead of
PUTLINE/GETLINE.
I'm not 100% sure how this should all be done.
I'm not sure what prior art would suggest
either. Maybe prior art would suggest
channeling everything through TCP/IP calls.
After all, you can run emacs via a telnet
session.
BFN. Paul.
---In hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com,
<***@yahoo.com mailto:***@yahoo.com
mailto:***@yahoo.com
mailto:***@yahoo.com> wrote :
Don't you think it would be easier to just use
mobile
phones to send and receive messages rather than using a
batch based os without any gui. If you intent to use
mvs380
as a back end for clients to communicate with each other
using gui then that's good.
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 10/27/18, ***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au
mailto:***@yahoo.com.au [hercules-os380]
<hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [hercules-os380] bluetooth
To: hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:hercules-***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 27, 2018, 2:15 PM
I'm thinking of adding bluetooth to
Hercules/380 the same way that
TCP/IP was added, so that I can
run MVS programs to communicate
with other bluetooth devices.
I'm also thinking about having a
bluetooth network to replace Fidonet
to some extent. Whenever two
bluetooth computers come in range
they can exchange newsgroup
messages.
So I can envisage this being used in
villages in the Philippines.
In addition to that there would be
village to village connections using
UUCP over the internet or something
like that.
BFN. Paul.
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